ЭЛЕКТРОННАЯ БИБЛИОТЕКА КОАПП
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supermodels-faq


Archive-Name: supermodels-faq
Last-Modified: 1994/02/28
Version: 1.14

This is a Frequently Asked Questions list for alt.supermodels.  It
tries to address the standard questions, so the regular readers won't
have to see them again.  The info is mostly drawn from postings to this
group, but a lot has been contributed directly.  There's a lot of data
about people who aren't supermodels, because people ask a lot of
questions about people who aren't supermodels.  However, I've tried to
omit most of the people who aren't models at all.  This list is not
guaranteed to be complete, accurate, useful, grammatically sound, or
spelled correctly.

If you have any data that belongs here, _please_ send it to
scott@udel.edu.  Comments and suggestions are also welcome.  I'll keep
contributions anonymous unless you explicitly ask to be credited.

This FAQ particularly needs hard data; addresses (fashion houses,
magazines, catalogs, fan clubs, etc), birthdates, measurements, earning
power, etc.

[ I'd like to get some more info on the educational or business
achievements of current and retired supermodels.  I'm hoping some
examples will help quiet the "supermodels are/aren't brainless" flames.
For example, Crawford was pulling A's in North-Western's
engineering program before becoming a model. ]


[ ************************************************************************
 * This faq is now running on automatic.  It will be posted every two   *
 * weeks, but it's contents will probably not be updated.  I just don't *
 * have time to maintain it anymore.  If anyone would like to take it   *
 * over (even anonymously), please contact me at scott@udel.edu.        *
 ************************************************************************ ]



#####################
Contents:
   Lists of models and data.
   Common questions and answers.
   Addresses.
   Sources of additional movie appearance information.
   How to download and view the pictures.
   Where to get pictures of supermodels on the net.
   Standard for posting pictures.
   Where to get the latest version of this and other FAQs.
   How to contribute if you don't have usenet posting access.
   History of alt.supermodels and this FAQ.
   Credits.
   Disclaimer.



#####################
Lists of models and data.
   These people have been mentioned on this group.  Some are
   supermodels.  The rest have some claim to being models, but
   aren't famous enough yet to rate a "super".

   [ Since there is now an alt.celebrities group, the non-models,
   playmates, actresses, etc. have been removed from here. ]

   [ Several people have requested that male models be added to this
   list.  I'm not sure any of them have the name recognition or
   earning power of the mainstream female "supermodels", or that they
   will ever attain it.  However, several of the female models listed
   here will probably never become "super" models either.  So, I am
   adding men.  Unfortunately, I don't really have any data on them.
   Can anyone help? ]

   [ I'm not going to list every movie a model has made, because
   I can't do it effectively.  I'll just list a couple 'star maker'
   roles, and leave the full lists to the movie experts listed in
   the next section of this FAQ. ]

Albane, Sultry Born: '78?

Alexander, Karen
   Born: '65?
   Began modelling: at age 16, '76?
   First Black model to appear in SI swimsuit issue in 1987.
   Is married and has a daughter Ella.

Alt, Carol
   Hair color: brown
   Born: Dec 1 1960 in New York City
   Retired.  Modeled for Cover Girl Cosmetics.  Played in a couple
   of B movies; some starring roles.

Ariffin, Nora
   Models for Cover Girl Cosmetics.

Banks, Tyra
   Appeared in "Inferno", a British sexploitation film.

Barrymore, Drew
   Born: 22 Feb 1975 in Culver City, California, USA As a child, she
   starred in several films, including "E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial",
   and "Firestarter".  She recovered from a drug addiction, and
   restarted her career with "Poison Ivy".  Which was partially
   intended to show she had grown up.  Replaced Anne Smith as Guess?
   Jeans' model.  Has tattoos on her ankle and hand, and a butterfly
   near her navel.

Beach, Nicole

Bellucci, Monica
   Height: 5'9-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 35-24-35
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Dark Brown
   Eye color: Dark Brown
   Shoe size: 9-1/2
   Born: 1969?
   Agency: Elite
   Nationality: Italian
   Cast as a vampire in the movie Bram Stoker's Dracula directed
   by Francis Ford Coppola.  She was discovered by Coppola's son Roman
   on the cover of an Italian magazine called Zoom.

Bercu, Michaela
   Height: 5'11"
   Bust-waist-hips: 36-26-36
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 11
   Agency: Elite
   Appeared as a vampire in Coppola's Dracula.  Cover of Feb 93 Shape.

Bouquet, Carole
   Hair color: Black
   French actress/model.  Movie credits include "For Your Eyes Only"
   and "Too Beautiful for You"

Brinkley, Christie
   Mostly retired.  Married to Billy Joel.

Bruni, Carla
   Born: 68? in Turin, Italy
   Began modelling: at age 19
   Agency: Women Model Management
   Her boyfriend is Swiss actor Vincent Perez (4 years older)
   although she was rumored to be the cause of the marriage breakup
   between Mick Jagger and Jerry Hall.  Bruni countered the
   allegations by asking why she would have anything to do with a
   shrivelled up old fossil like Mick Jagger.  As a result, Jagger and
   Hall's marriage appears to remain intact.  A story on Bruni appears
   in the Jan 93 issue of American Vogue.

Campbell, Naomi
   Height: 5'9-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34-22-34
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Dark Brown
   Eye color: Dark Brown
   Shoe size: 9
   Agency: Elite
   Born: May 22 1970 in London, England
   Is one of the top five supermodels in the modelling industry.
   Appears in a steamy video with Michael Jackson and is reportedly
   pursuing a singing career on her own.  Appears as singer in movie
   "Cool as Ice".  Engaged to Adam Clayton, U2's bass guitarist.

Carter, Lynda
   Now retired, but was one of Revlon's (I think) bigest models a few
   years ago.  Best known for playing Wonder Woman on TV.

Cates, Phoebe
   A teen model before becoming an actress.  Several major film credits.
   Married to Kevin Kline.  Lives on the upper west side of Manhattan.

Christensen, Helena
   Born: Born Dec 25 1968 in Copenhagen, Denmark
   Appears in print ads for Karl Lagerfeld and Gianni Versace.
   Involved with Michael Hutchence of INXS.  Was in Chris Issac's
   "Wicked Game" mini-movie.  Appeared in "Inferno", a British
   sexploitation film.

Connelly, Jennifer
   Born: Dec 12 1970 in New York, USA
   Connelly did some modelling around '87.  She's now a serious
   actress with several film credits including "The Rocketeer",
   "Career Opportunities", and "Hotspot" (which contains the only
   known topless photo of her).

Crawford, Cindy
   Height: 5'9-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34B-24-35
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Light Brown
   Eye color: Dark Brown
   Shoe size: 9-1/2
   Born: 20 Feb 1966 in De Kalb, Illinois, USA
   Agency: Elite
   Probably the single most widely recognized supermodel.  Cindy was
   the spokesperson for Pepsi for a while, has her own exercise video,
   and her own show on MTV.  She's also done at least three calendars,
   and of the profit, half (I believe) goes toward fighting leukemia.
   Had a three year $3 million contract with Revlon.  Also appeared in
   print ads for JH Collectables and Capezio Bags.  She appeared in
   a series of lingerie posters for Hennes & Mauritz in Europe.  The
   Norway police tore many of them down because they feared drivers
   were being too distracted.  She has said she feels too old for
   runway modeling, and wishes to cut back to part time modelling.

   Cindy is not doing any calendar for 1994.  She is said to be busy
   doing and promoting her exercise/work-out video.  The same company
   who made the last 4 calendars has brought out the Cindy Crawford
   1994 European Edition Calendar which has various pics taken from
   her last four calendars.  Also, there is another calendar produced
   by an English firm which is of fairly poor quality (its only 12
   month while the European Edition is 16 months).
   [ Addresses for the two companies, CULTRE SHOCK and DAY DREAM
   CALENDARS, are in the addresses section of this FAQ. ]

   She was married to actor Richard Gere in Dec '91 at the Little
   Church of the West in Las Vegas, by Rev.  Wes McPherson.  They
   using wedding bands twisted from chewing gum wrappers.  Cindy
   said, during an interview, they plan on having a child soon.

   Cindy is frequently rumored to be bisexual, and having an affair
   with Christy Turlington.  In '91, they were photographed while
   kissing behind the Roxy nightclub in New York.  The rumors have
   intensified since Cindy appeared on the cover of Vanity Fair
   shaving k.d. lang, a confirmed lesbian.

   Appeared topless in the July 1988 Playboy.  Quote: "I don't mind if
   someone thinks a picture of me decorates their wall nicely.  It's
   weird when you think what people might be doing to it.  But if just
   the way I look can make someone feel good, that's a pretty easy way
   for me to bring them some pleasure.  I just don't want to hear
   about graphics details, you know." US April 1993.

Davis, Geena
   Modeled before becoming famous as an actress.

Dee Dee
   Height: 5'11"
   Bust-waist-hips: 35-25-36
   Dress size: 8-9
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 10
   Agency: Elite

Deneuve, Catherine
   Now retired, but modeled before becoming famous as an actress.

Douglas, Meghan
   Height: 5'10"
   Bust-waist-hips: 33-24.5-35
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Lt. Brown
   Eye color: Blue-Green
   Shoe size: 7.5-8
   Agency: Elite

Dubosfertus, Nadege
   Usually just Nadege.  She is married to photographer Tiziano Magni
   who has one son named Rocco.  She was married in '92 in an Azzedine
   Alaia mini dress with push-up bodice.  Nadege appears regularly in
   American Vogue and on the runways.  She can be seen in ads for
   Chanel.

Elliott, Gail
   Height: 5'10"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34-23-35
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Brunette
   Eye color: Brown
   Shoe size: 9.5
   Agency: Elite
   Another "older" model, but is still going strong especially on
   runway and in print ads.  Can be seen in ads for Ports
   International and Jaeger.

Evangelista, Linda
   Height: 5'9-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34-24-34.5
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: ????  very short
   Eye color: Blue-Green
   Shoe size: 8.5
   Agency: Elite
   Nationality: Canadian.
   Linda is one of the top five supermodels of the world.  She
   recently joked that she wouldn't get out of bed for less than
   $10,000 a day.  She appears in ads for Barney's New York (with Kyle
   MacLachlan), and in ads for Kenar.  She is also reported to be one
   of the hardest working models of the moment which could partly
   account for her great success.  Married to Gerald Marie, head of
   the Elite agency in France, but getting a divorce.  Going with Kyle
   MacLachlan.

Everhart, Angie
   Hair color: red
   Eyes: Brown
   Nationality: USA
   Has done Sports Illustrated calenders, Levi's 501 television ads,
   Hennes & Mauritz ads, MAX magazine, J-Crew, etc.  Had a bit part in
   "The Last Action Hero", a recent Schwarzenegger vehicle.  Lived in
   Paris, but has moved to New York.  Speaks French.  She promised her
   grandmother she would never pose nude.

Fabio
   A male model.  There is some debate whether he is handsome, or
   an ugly "refugee from a bad metal band".

Falaise, Lucie de la
   Born: 73?
   Began modelling: Dec 92?
   One of the new crop of models labelled the "gamines".  She appeared
   on the cover of Vogue Dec. 92.  She is 19 and is model/muse
   exclusively for Yves Saint Laurent.  Appears in made-for-HBO movie
   "Women & Men 2: In Love There Are No Rules".  Yves St. Laurent
   chose her for the traditional final presentation of a bridal gown
   at the unveiling of his spring '93 collection.

Farrell, Terry
   Rumored to have modeled before becoming an actress.  Plays
   "Jadzia Dax" on Star Trek, Deep Space Nine.
   [ Can anyone list any of her modeling credits? ]

Fedoruk, Cathy
   Height: 5'9-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34B-25-35
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 9.5
   Agency: Elite
   Nationality: Canadian
   Appears in ads for Ellese.

Flavin, Jennifer
   Not a "super" model.  Is Sylvester Stallone's girlfriend and it is
   rumored that designer's have been putting her in their shows as a
   favor to "Rocky".  Her nose has been likened to Bob Hope's.
   Nonetheless, she can be seen occasionally in mags with Stallone,
   but was on a cover of Cosmopolitan in Spring 92.

Frederique
   Height: 5'10"
   Bust-waist-hips: 36C-24.5-36
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue-Green
   Shoe size: 8.5
   Agency: Elite
   Was on cover of Cosmopolitan magazine.  Often models for Victoria's
   Secret Catalogue.

Ghauri, Yasmeen
   Nationality: Montreal, Canada
   One of the top supermodels.  Appears in ads for Valentino, Escada,
   and Gianni Versace.  German/Pakistani heritage: her father was an
   Indian Muslim who migrated to Pakistan during the partition in
   1947.  Her mother was German.  She grew up in Montreal.  Quite
   often she is fond of wearing Shalwar/Kameez.

Gisele
   A model who is popular on the runways.  She also appears in recent
   ads for Saks Fifth Avenue and has a small appearance in George
   Michael's Too Funky video.

Goodacre, Jill
   Height: 5'8"
   Bust-waist-hips: 35-24-34
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Light Brown
   Eye color: Green
   Shoe size: 9
   Agency: Elite
   Born: 29 March 1964 in Lubbock, Texas, USA (raised in Boulder, Colorado)
   Often appears in Victoria's Secret Catalogue.
   Marrying Harry Connick, Jr.

Hallyday, Estelle
   Height: 5'9"
   Bust-waist-hips: 36-26-37
   Dress size: 8-10
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 8.5
   Agency: Elite
   She is becoming an "older" model and is not quite as popular as she
   was a few years ago.  She appeared in some Revlon print ads and has
   a major part in George Michael's Too Funky video.  She is married
   to French pop singer David Hallyday.

Hammer, Brit
   Height: 5'6-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 32-23-33
   Dress size: 6
   Hair color: Brown
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 8
   Agency: Elite
   Graduated MaCalester College.  She was the Clinique model for 5
   yrs.  Recently did a L'Oreal calendar.  Primarily an actress.  Lives
   in NYC and is married with 2 children.

Harry, Angela
   An asian model.

Helfer, Tricia
   Height: 5'10
   The winner of this years Ford Supermodel of the Year contest.  Is
   from Alberta, Canada and is on the cover of the Feb 93' issue of
   Flare magazine (Canadian).

Herzigora, Eva
   Height: 5'9
   Bust-waist-hips: 37 23 36
   Hair color: bleached blonde
   Eye color: blue
   Born: 73?, under Pisces
   Agency: Madison
   Nationality: Czechoslovakian
   Earning power: $8,000-$12,000 per day
   Eva gained her most exposure appearing in Guess? ads in early '92.
   She can be seen in the photographer Ellen von Unwerth's film called
   Inferno.  She has an interesting beauty routine of bleaching her
   hair with vodka and lemon juice.

Hunter, Rachel
   Born: 67?
   Hair: Blond
   Eyes: Blue
   Nationality: New Zealand
   Appears in ads for Cover Girl and Keystone beer.  Married to
   singer Rod Stewart.  Daughter, Renee, was born in June 1992.

Iman
   Height: 5'9" (175 cm)
   Nationality: Somalia
   Had a part as a shapeshifter in "Star Trek: the Undiscovered
   Country", and a relatively large role in "No Way Out".  Appeared in
   the Michael Jackson video "Remember the Time".  Married to David
   Bowie.

Ireland, Kathy
   Born: 1962 in Glendale, California
   She has played numerous small roles on the large and small screen,
   including an episode of the sitcom "Grand" and the movies "Mom and
   Dad Save the Universe", "Necessary Roughness", "National Lampoons
   Loaded Weapon 1", and "Danger Island".  She had the title role in
   "Alien from L.A.", which was featured on a recent episode of
   "Mystery Science Theatre 3000".  Some people find her voice
   irritating.  Her main "thing" is modeling swimsuits for Sports
   Illustrated, since '84.  Recently married a emergency room doctor.
   One of her hobbies is homebrewing beer.

Irwin, Elaine
   Height: 5'10"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34B-24-34
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 8
   Agency: Elite
   Married to John (Cougar) Mellencamp. Salon Selective model

Janssen, Famke
   Height: 5'11"
   Bust-waist-hips: 36-24-36
   Dress size: 8-10
   Hair color: Brown
   Eye color: Hazel
   Shoe size: 11
   Agency: Elite
   Appeared in a Star Trek The Next Generation episode, "The Perfect
   Mate", as Kamala, an empathic mesomorph.

Jovovitch, Milla
   Hair color: red
   Models for Almay, and in Seventeen.  Was in "Return to the Blue Lagoon"
   Russian?

Kirsebom, Vendela
   Height: 5'8" (173 cm)
   Nationality: Swedish
   Born: Jan. 12, 1967 in Stockholm
   Nearly exclusive model for Elizabeth Arden.  Sports Illustrated
   swimsuit model.

Kumlin, Kristina
   Agency: Elite

Lanza, Susan (Suzanne?)
   Models for Victoria's Secret Catalogue, but wants to be an actress.

LeBon, Yasmin
   Height: 5'9"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34-24-35
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Brown
   Eye color: Dark Brown
   Shoe size: 9
   Agency: Elite
   Yasmin was at the height of her popularity about 1988 when she
   married Duran Duran lead singer Simon LeBon.  She has a daughter
   Amber Rose.  She is still popular on the runways.

Lindburg, Lauren
   Models for Cover Girl Cosmetics.

MacDowell, Andie
   Born: Feb 12 1958 in Gaffney, South Carolina, USA
   Was L'Oreal's exclusive model for several years ending around '89 .
   Continued modeling until about '90.  She's mostly acting now.  Her
   movie credits include St. Elmo's Fire; Tarzan (picture only, the
   voice was dubbed in by Glen Close); Sex, Lies and Videotape; Object
   of Beauty; and Greencard.  Married and living in the 9 Mile Valley,
   just outside Frenchtown, Montana.

MacPherson, Elle
   Height: 6' (1.83m)
   Born: 29 March 1964 in Sydney Austrailia
   Weight: 128 (58 kg)
   Bust-waist-hips: 34c-?-?
   Nationality: Australian
   Models for Sports Illustrated.  Has had at least one appearance
   on the David Letterman Show.  Appears in Woody Allen film "Alice".
   Engaged to Eric Miller, a 32 year old billionaire.

Mark, Marky
   A male model.  Modeled for Calvin Klein until fired.  Mr. Klein was
   said to be fed up with "Mr. LoudMouth".

Marpessa
   Primarly a runway model.

Marshall, Esme
   Big in the early '80's.

Mason, Claudia
   Nationality: Canadian
   Another of the "gamines".  Very popular on European runways.  Can
   be spotted in American and British Vogue as well as British Elle.

Matthews, Lisa
   Height: 69.0
   Bust-waist-hips: 37.0  24.0  36.0
   Hair color: bleached blond
   Born: 24 Sep 69, in Peoria, Illinois
   Weight: 120
   Playboy playmate for April 1990, and playmate of the year for 1991.
   No confirmed modeling or TV credits.  May have modeled for
   Victoria's Secret.  Credited as Lisa Reich in "Hudson Hawk".  She
   was the girl in the car who calls out to Bruce Willis as he rides
   down the street on an ambulance stretcher

McCullough, Julie Michelle
   Height: 67.0
   Bust-waist-hips: 36.0  24.0  35.0
   Hair color: Blond
   Born: 30 Jan 65, in Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
   Weight: 115
   Playboy playmate for February 1986.  Had a regular part on TV show
   "Growing Pains".  Movies "Big Bad Mama II" and "Round Trip to Heaven".

McGrotha, Rosemary
   Height: 5'9
   Bust-waist-hips: Dcup
   I Donna Karan's model/muse.  She appears in almost all of the Karan
   ads.  She was in a popular ad where she portrayed a woman who was
   President of the United States and still wasn't afraid to show a
   little cleavage and a little leg.

McMenamy, Kristen
   Born in: 1966 in Easton, Pennsylvania, USA (or Buffalo, NY USA?)
   Hair: long red, later very short black
   Bust-waist-hips: 31-20-30, later 34b-25-35
   Kristen was a fairly normal model, basically just another beautiful
   face.  However, without any trademark, her career was a disaster.
   About a year ago, she cut and dyed her hair, and shaved off her
   eyebrows.  Since then she's been doing much better.  She has been
   described as an antimodel, and is typical of the grunge models.

Moore, Demi
   Did some modeling in Europe before becoming famous as an actress.

Moss, Kate
   Height: 5'7"
   Weight: 95? (She claims to never weigh herself.)
   Born: 16 Jan 74 in Addiscomb, Surrey, England
   Earning power: $10000 / day
   Agency: Women Model Management
   One of the more controversial supermodels, primarily because of her
   unusually low weight (she typifies the "waif" models).  Some people
   feel she is unattractively thin, and fear idolizing her may cause
   anorexia in impressionable teenage girls.  However, she also has a
   large number of fans, and receives a large number of modeling jobs.
   Her contract with Calvin Klein is supposedly worth over 1 million.
   Her unusual appearance (and possibly her willingness to appear
   nude, "It's just work") have, in a very short time, made her almost
   as widely recognized as Cindy Crawford.  She is a little too short
   and thin to model clothes designed for the "standard" model's
   build.  This makes her less versatile and may limit her career's
   lifespan.  She appeared in an '89 British sexploitation film "The
   Inferno".  She chain smokes Marlboros.  She has broken with her
   photographer boyfriend, Mario Sorrenti.

Mulder, Karen
   Height: 5'10"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34.5-24-34.5
   Dress size: 6
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 8
   Agency: Elite
   One of the most popular blonde models of the moment.  Appeared in
   the requisite Guess?  ads in 1991 (I think).  She is Dutch and
   married to Rene Bosne.  She can be seen everywhere!

Munro, Carol
   Retired.

Ogilvie, Lana
   Nationality: Canadian
   will soon appear in the upcoming Cover Girl ads
   for their new line of cosmetics for darker skinned models.

Otis, Carr'e
   Born: Sep 28 1968 in San Francisco, California, USA
   Former boyfriend was Mickey Rourke.  Carrie has five tattoos - a
   rose on her right ankle, a Japanese peace sign above the rose, a
   Tibetan symbol on her left ankle, a large angle on her back and a
   Native American Thunderbird on her wrist.  About two years ago she
   accidentally shot herself under her left arm when a firearm she was
   carrying went off in her purse.  Carrie appeared in the infamous
   movie Wild Orchid where she was reported to be having real sex on
   screen with then boyfriend Mickey Rourke.  She can be seen in some
   equally infamous Calvin Klein jeans ads that came out in '92.  The
   story line for the ads was her travelling with a band, appearing
   naked from the waist down and riding a motorcycle.

Patitz, Tatjana
   Height: 5'11"
   Bust-waist-hips: 36-24-36
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 9.5
   Agency: Elite
   Nationality: Norwegian? German?
   Going out with Nick Kamen, the English pop star.
   In "The Rising Sun".

Peele, Beverly
   Height: 6'0" (183 cm)
   Bust-waist-hips: 34A 23 34
   Hair color: black
   Eye color: brown
   Born: 75?
   Agency: Next
   Nationality: American
   Earning power: $10,000 per day
   Beverly is one of the most popular black models today besides Naomi
   Campbell.  She appears in all of the major runway shows and has
   been photographed numerous times for American Vogue, and has been
   photographed for ads by Steven Meisel and Bruce Weber.  She earns
   up to $1 million a year

Pestova, Daniela "The Chameleon"
   Height: 5'11
   Bust-waist-hips: 34B 23 35
   Hair color: blond
   Eye color: blue
   Born: 70?, under Libra
   Agency: Spectrum
   Nationality: Czechoslovakian
   Earning power: $2 million per year, $12,000 per day
   Trademarks: Changing Looks, Punctuality
   Daniela has a contract with L'Oreal and appears in various L'Oreal
   cosmetics print ads.  On the cover of Cosmopolitan's February 1993
   issue.

Porizkova, Paulina
   Height: 1.79m
   Born: Apr 9 1965
   Weight: 59kg
   Has had at least one appearance on the Arsenio Hall Show.  Appeared
   in August 1987 Playboy.  She's said during an interview that she
   unwinds by "playing Nintendo".  Modeled almost exclusively for
   Estee Lauder.  Is married to Ric Ocasek.  They have a son, Jonathan
   Raven Ocasek, born 4 (14?) Nov 93.  Recently wrote a children's book
   about the adventures of a Roach in New York.  Paulina frequently
   criticized the shallowness of the modelling industry and has
   mentioned that she is in the process of working on a book about the
   industry as she sees it.

Reece, Gabrielle
   Height: 6'3" (190.5 cm)
   Model and professional beach volleyball player.  Was seeing Jose
   Canseco.  Seems to be concentrating more on her volleyball.

Reno, Hunter
   Height: 5'11-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 35-25-35
   Dress size: 8-10
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 11
   Agency: Elite

Richardson, Ashley
   Height: 6'2" (188 cm)
   Born: 1965 in Sudbury, Massachusetts, USA  (I've also heard Florida)
   Can be seen in ads for Jordache.

Rossellini, Isabella
   Born: Jun 18 1952 in Rome, Italy
   Retired.  Modeled mostly for Lancome.  Also appears in ads for
   Dolce and Gabbana.  Daughter of director Roberto Rossellini and
   actress Ingrid Bergman.  Her relationship with director David Lynch
   is finished, but she can still be seen in his movies Blue Velvet
   and Wild at Heart.

S., Emma
   Height: 5'9-1/2"
   Bust-waist-hips: 35-25-36
   Dress size: 8
   Hair color: Blonde
   Eye color: Blue
   Shoe size: 8
   Agency: Elite
   Appears in George Michael's Too Funky video.

Schenkenberg, Marcus
   A rising male model.

Schiffer, Claudia
   Height: 5'11"
   Bust-waist-hips: 35-24-36
   Born: Aug 25 1970 in Rheinbach, Germany
   Weight: 127
   Agency: Metropolitan
   Is one of the top five supermodels in the modelling industry today.
   Has a four year contract with Revlon worth $6 million, which
   requires her not to pose nude.  Also models in print ads for the
   clothing company Iceberg, for Chanel and Gianni Versace.
   Spokesmodel rep for Guess? perfume.  Was rumored to be fiancee of
   Prince Albert of Monaco.  A paparazzi got several topless photos
   while she was on vacation.  They were printed in three European
   newspapers.  She sued them.  Engaged to David Copperfield, the
   magician.

Schnarre, Monika
   Height: 6'1" (185 cm)
   Born: 1972 in Toronto, Canada
   In 1987 SI swimsuit issue (page 114). Female lead in "Waxwork II:
   Lost in Time".  Won 1989 Ford Supermodel of the Year contest.
   She once said she wanted to work at Club MED.

Seymour, Stephanie
   Height: 5'10"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34B-22-35
   Dress size: 6-8
   Hair color: Light Brown
   Eye color: Blue-Green
   Shoe size: 10
   Agency: Elite
   Born: Aug 1968 in San Diego California, USA
   Stephanie Seymour has modeled swimsuits for Sports Illustrated, and
   was also the primary spokesmodel for Victoria's Secret Catalogue.
   She has done at least two pictorials for Playboy; the first in
   March 1991, the second in February 1993.  Was going with Axl Rose,
   the rock star, but broke up in early '93.  Rumored to be seeing
   Peter Brant, owner of Interview mag, who is married with five kids.
   She has a son, Dylan Thomas.

Shepard, Cybil
   Height: 5'9" (175 cm)
   Former model, actress.  Best known for her roles in "The Last
   Picture Show", "Taxi Driver", and the TV series "Moonlighting".  In
   the 70's, she so defined the image of icy coldness, that the role
   in Taxi Driver was written with her in mind.

Shields, Brooke
   Mostly a minor actress, she has also been doing some modeling work.
   She did a photo shoot to promote the Sydney 2000 Olympic bid while
   she was in Australia, which appears in an Australian magazine
   called "Inside Sport".

Shimizu, Jenny
   Born: '71?
   Height: 5'7"
   Agency: Women Model Management
   One of the most successful asian models.  She's worked the runways
   for Versace, Anna Sui, Calvin Klein, and Jean Paul Gaultier.  She's
   appeared in Neneh Cherry and Terence Trent D'Arby videos and in a
   Banana Republic ad.  She's in the December Allure and will be in
   the February Elle.  She has 4 large tattoos - a woman straddling a
   wrench from her right shoulder to her elbow, a spark plug on her
   left forearm, a cross on the back of her neck, and Japanese
   characters for "And she goes..." on her left shoulder.  She's
   rumored to be Madonna's lover.  The March 15, 1992, L.A. Times
   calls her a "lezbopunk bike-dyke".  In it she said, "I'm all for
   sexual freedom: S&M, bondage, dancing half-naked.  I just think
   it's great".  She says she was "always a tomboy".  She went to
   trade school rather than college, and worked as a garage mechanic.
   She was discovered by L.A. Casting agent Rosanna on her 1971
   Triumph motorcycle outside the LA nightclub, "Fuck..." She
   skateboards, motorcycles, wears Red Wing biker boots, listens to
   Bjork, and watches Beavis and Butthead ("It rules," she says).  In
   five years, she'd like to own her own garage and race bikes.  She
   says, "I'd like to see runways get more creative.  I had dreams of
   this roller derby type thing, but on skateboards."

Smith, Amber
   Height: 5'10
   Bust-waist-hips: 36c 24 35
   Hair color: reddish blonde
   Eye color: hazel
   Born: 72? under Pisces
   Agency: Spectrum
   Earning power: $8,000 per day
   Nationality: American
   Amber's ambition is to be America's #1 pin-up girl.  She is
   known for a tattoo of a redhead on her thigh; "It's a tattoo
   of Amber" she says.

Smith, Anna Nicole "Vickie"
   Height: 71
   Bust-waist-hips: 36.0DD 26.0 38.0
   Hair color: bleached blonde
   Born: 28 Nov 67 in Houston, Texas, USA
   Weight: 140 (I've also heard 155)
   Playboy playmate for May 1992 (as Vickie Smith), and playmate of
   the year for '93.  Modeled for Guess? She is from Mexia, Texas,
   and has one son.  In Norway, the consumer rights ombud tried to get
   her adds for H&M underwear banned to protect consumers from any
   sexual associations.  She is flattered that young Norwegian boys
   sell her posters for $7 each.

Smithers, Jan
   Hair color: brunette
   Born: Jul 3 1949 in North Hollywood California, USA
   Did some modeling work, then had a regular part as "Bailey" on
   "WKRP in Cincinatti" in the early eighties.  Now married to James
   Brolin (of the TV show _Hotel_ among other things) and living in
   Canada.

Taylor, Krissy
   Height: 6'0 (still growing)
   Hair: blonde
   Agency: IMG Models, NY
   Born: '78?
   Niki's younger sister.  Not a supermodel.  Has appeared in YM,
   Seventeen, Self, Mademoiselle, Vogue, and Dolly (Aust)

Taylor, Niki
   Height: 5'11
   Bust-waist-hips: 34b 24 34
   Hair color: brown
   Eye color: hazel
   Born: 75?
   Agency: IMG Models, NY
   Earning power: $15,000 per day
   Nationality: American
   Niki is head of her own company called Niki Inc.  She has a tattoo
   of a dolphin on her ankle, a sun on her foot and two on her
   buttocks.  Niki appears in ads for Cover Girl and older L'Oreal
   ads.  She has a fan club.  [ address below ]

Tiegs, Cheryl
   Height: 5'10" (178 cm)
   1970's and 1980's supermodel.  Sports Illustrated swimsuit model.

Turlington, Christy
   Height: 5'10"
   Weight: 118
   Had a major contract with Maybelline for two years at $2 million.
   Can be seen in print ads for Calvin Klein Eternity perfume, North
   Beach Leather, and Anne Klein Accessories.  Christy has a small
   tattoo inside her right ankle.  She is married to Roger Wilson, the
   screen writer, but is rumored to be having an affair with Cindy
   Crawford (Yes, that means exactly what it says).  Christy is one of
   the top five supermodels of the world at the moment.  Appeared in
   George Michael's video "Freedom".  Dating Christian Slater, the
   actor.  Her mother is El Salvadoran, her father is Anglo.  May be
   supporting PETA, an anti-fur activist group.

Turner, Janine
   Retired?

Valetta, Amber
   Born: '73? in Tulsa
   One of the waifs.

Webb, Veronica
   Black model for Revlon's new cosmetic line for darker skin.  Appears
   in Spike Lee's Jungle Fever, and has a small appearance in Malcolm X.

Weigel, Teri
   Height: 67.0
   Bust-waist-hips: 34.0B 21.0 34.0
   Weight: 108
   Born: Feb 24 1962 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida
   Playboy playmate for April 1986.  Bust measurement above is from
   that period, she's had at least one enlargement since.  Worked as a
   catalog model for a while, then got hurt by a car accident.  After
   recovery, went into hardcore porn (Yes, that's been confirmed).

Williams, Kim

Williams, Rachel
   Height: 6'0" (183 cm)
   Born: Apr 29 1967 in New York City, USA
   A popular model who appears frequently in American Elle magazine.
   She is also in print ads for Nine West Spa Collection shoes.

Williams, Stacey
   Height: 6'0" (183 cm)
   Sports Illustrated swimsuit model.

Young, Kara
   Height: 5'8"
   Bust-waist-hips: 34-23-34
   Dress size: 6
   Hair color: Brown
   Eye color: Brown
   Shoe size: 8.5
   Agency: Elite

Zadrick, Shana
   A model who is still trying to establish her niche but who is being
   helped along, much like Linda Evangelista was, by photographer
   Steven Meisel.  She appears in ads for Calvin Klein Escape, was a
   Guess? girl in 1991, and appears in ads for Kors and Alberta
   Ferreti.


#####################
Common questions and answers not handled in the previous section.

What is a supermodel?
   This is a major point of discussion in this group.  Some factors
   that may be involved are earning power, name recognition, face
   recognition, frequency of runway appearances, frequency of magazine
   covers, appearances in Sports Illustrated, calenders, TV
   appearances, movies.  Also see the "history and purpose" section
   of this FAQ.

Why are all (or most) supermodels tall and thin?
   There are variations, but most models are about the same size,
   height (~5'9), and weight.

   Most of the designs are for very thin women (why is another good
   question).  Tall women appear thinner than short ones.

   Women with small faces are supposed to photograph "better". If
   you put a head on a woman who is 5'10" - 6', it will look smaller
   than the same beautiful head on a woman who is 5'2" or so.

   Designers can sew clothes for the "standard" model.  Then they can
   easily substitute models if they think a particular dress would
   look better with a different model, or someone is late for a show.

   Uniformity lets them "ensemble" well with other models.  No one
   has to stand on box.  The standard height may be on the tall side
   to ease posing with men.

Who's the woman in the Meatloaf video?
   Dana Patrick.  However, the voice belongs to a woman identified
   only as "Mrs. Loud".

What's the name of the magazine Alyssa Milano posed nude in?
   The complete title is "Bikini".

Who is the girl in the Aerosmith videos?
   Alicia Silverstone was in the Aerosmith vidoes "Cryin'" and
   "Amazing", and starred in the movie, "The Crush".  She's 17.


#####################
Addresses.

   American Photo
 for subscription:
     P.O. Box 51033
     Boulder, CO USA 80323-1033
 for questions or comments:
     Editor American Photo
     1633 Broadway
     New York, NY USA 10019
   [ "American Photo" is a completely different magazine from "Photo",
   a French magazine.  The French one is often highly recommended
   in alt.supermodels for excellent nude pictures of supermodels.
   It has been hard to find in the USA since the French government
   refused to let US AF-111's pass through French airspace to bomb Libya. ]

   Cosmopolitan Magazine
   P.O. Box 7162
   Red Oak, Iowa USA 51591
   tel (800) 888-2676

   CULTRE SHOCK
   16/18 Wimbledon Stadium Business Centre
   Riverside Road London SW17 OBA
   United Kingdom
   Tel (081) 879 3949 Fax 081 879 0792
   [ markets the 1994 12 month Cindy Crawford calender.  The photos
   are recycled from other sources, and not all are of Cindy. ]

   DAY DREAM CALENDARS, INC.
   Carpinteria, CA 93013
   Canadian Distributor:
 Bella Flor Enterprises, Inc.
 Kelowna, British Columbia
   Tel (604) 860-33771   [ too long? ]
   [ markets the 1994 16 month Cindy Crawford calender. ]

   Elite Modeling Agency
   111 East 22nd Street,
   New York, NY USA 10010
   212-529-9800
   Model Management 212-529-9495
   Men 212-529-9554
   New Faces 212-529-9551
   T.V. 212-529-4555
   Accounting 212-529-9594
   London office: +44 71 333 0888
   [ Sorry, they have no known email address. ]

   Metropolitan Agency
   5 Union Square West
   New York 10003
   (No phone number yet)

   The Niki Taylor Fan Club
   119 Rockland Center
   Suite 251
   Nanuet, NY 10954

   Northbeach Leather
   1335 Columbus Avenue, Dept. 603P
   San Francisco, CA  USA 94133
   [ Their $3.00 catalog sometimes has supermodels. ]

   Samantha Fox Fan Club
   c/o Jeffrey Dixon
   P.O. Box 1656
   Garden Grove, CA  USA 92642-1656
   (714) 636-FOXY (3699 if you don't have letters)
   [ $20 fee ? ]

   Vanity Fair
   P.O. Box 51333
   Boulder, Colorado USA 80321-1333

   Victoria's Secret Catalogue
   North American Office
   PO BOX 182103
   Columbus, OH USA 43272-2497
   1-800-888-8200

   Vogue
 subscription
     Box 55980
     Boulder, Colorodo 80332
     tel (800) 234-2347
 editorial and business offices
     350 Madison Avenue
     New York, NY 10017


#####################
Sources of additional movie appearance information.
   A lot of information about model's movie appearances is available
   from the movie database servers.  One of the best is "Cardiff's
   Movie Database Browser", available through the Web with URL:
   "http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk/Movies/moviequery.html"


#####################
How to download and view the pictures.
   Read the FAQ for alt.binaries.pictures.d.  If your site doesn't get
   that group, or expires it quickly, look in news.answers, or ftp it
   from rtfm.mit.edu.  Jim Howard has done an excellent job of
   explaining this, much better than I could.  He describes the
   necessary steps and programs on a wide variety of systems, and
   tells you where to find them on the net.

   Supermodel pictures are usually available in
   alt.binaries.pictures.supermodels (usually abbreviated a.b.p.s or
   abps) and alt.binaries.pictures.erotica (abpe).


#####################
Where to get pictures of supermodels on the net.
   Picture files can be obtained over the internet using ftp, fsp, or
   mail to one of the ftp-by-mail servers.  For more info, see Tom
   Czarnik's "FTP List - FAQ" posting to news.answers.

   There are NO ftp sites carrying nude pictures of supermodels or
   anyone else.  Every time one opens, 328959802 guys try to ftp to it
   at once, it's load goes to infinity, and it's admin deletes the
   pictures in self defense.  There are lots of sites that keep G and
   PG rated pictures of supermodels.  A couple of the more popular
   ones are below, use archie, or check the ftp FAQ for a complete
   list.

   Some FTP servers with supermodel info are:
 einstein.mse.lehigh.edu:/gif
 erratic.bradley.edu: via fsp only
 garfield.catt.ncsu.edu:/pub/graphics/images/girls
 louie.udel.edu:/pub/supermodels
     louie only has small "mug-shot" pictures of supermodel's faces,
     some copies of the posted lists of where to find pictures of
     particular supermodels, archives of this newsgroup, and this FAQ.
 nic.funet.fi:/pub/pics/gif/pics/sport
     only if you can access it via NORDUnet
 wuarchive.wustl.edu:/graphics/gif

   Some gopher and web servers with supermodel info are:
 http://louie.udel.edu/supermodels.html
 http://mtv.com/            (also gopher)
 http://olt.et.tudelft.nl/  (also gopher)
 http://www.unipi.it/models.html   (under construction?)
 gopher://gopher.unipi.it/1
 gopher://louie.udel.edu/11/ftp/supermodels

   FTP-via-EMail servers take mailed commands, ftp for the
     requested file, and mail it back to you.
 mail ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com with no subject line, and two-line body
     with line one help and line 2 quit
 mail bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu (body: help or ftplist for a list of
     anonymous ftp sites)

   Ken Higginson , and Pete "Ender" Walsh
    have been compiling and posting lists of
   pictures of specific supermodels and where to get them.  Ender
   posts his Kathy Ireland list occasionally, and will not respond to
   mail asking for it.  I'm not sure about Ken.  Neither of them will
   send you pictures by mail, even if you ask very nicely.  They're
   just too burned out from all the previous requests.


#####################
Standard for posting pictures.
   Again, read Jim Howard's FAQ for alt.binaries.pictures.d  He clearly
   describes the current standards for splitting articles (and why you
   should), how to title them, helpful programs, etc.  In particular,
   look for xmitBin, an automated splitting-posting program.

   Pictures should be posted to alt.binaries.pictures.supermodels,
   not alt.supermodels.  Many sites do not get abps because
   of "moralistic" censorship, worries over copyright suites,
   low disk space, or low net bandwidth.  However, if pictures
   are posted to alt.supermodels, then it will also become blocked.

   [ Note to any admins reading this: Please don't cut off entire
   groups to save bandwidth/space, instead ask your feeder to place an
   article size limit on your feed.  That will accomplish your goal,
   but not subject you to irrate users screaming "censorship".  It
   will also protect you from idiots posting 5 Meg bible quotes to
   normal discussion groups (which actually happened about a year
   ago). ]

   If you can't access abps at your site, use an NNTP news reader
   to read from one of the public sites, use gopher, or find someone
   to mail you the pics.

   Auto-decoders (such as Mark Stantz's "aub") are becoming far more
   common.  These programs scan all new articles in a list of
   newsgroups, find the picture pieces, sort them, assemble them,
   process them, and drop the finished picture files in a directory.
   The only problem is they demand that the subject lines follow the
   standard.  If you don't follow the standard, a lot of people will
   never even see your posting; so why did you bother to post?

   Very few things are farther from the standard than NeXT's
   NewsGrazer format.  Only a tiny fraction of one percent of readers
   will be able to view it, so you're just wasting bandwidth.


#####################
Where to get the latest version of this and other FAQs.
   The latest version is always available via anonymous ftp from
   louie.udel.edu in /pub/supermodels/alt.supermodels.faq.Z. The .Z
   means it has been packed with the unix compress program.  Remember
   to ftp it in binary mode.  If you can't uncompress on your machine,
   ftp it as just "alt.supermodels.faq".  Our ftp demon will recognize
   the name change and uncompress the file before sending it to you.
   For your convenience, louie's ftp spool is also available via
   gopher
 Type=1+
 Name=ftp.udel.edu public spool
 Path=1/ftp
 Host=gopher.eecis.udel.edu
 Port=70
   and WWW
 URL: "http://louie.udel.edu/supermodels.html"

   This FAQ and all of the other FAQs it references are available in
   the newgroup news.answers, and via anonymous ftp from rtfm.mit.edu.
   If you don't know what "anonymous ftp" is, talk to a computer guru
   at _your_site_.  No one out on the net will be able to help you
   with the particular setup of your machine.


#####################
How to contribute if you don't have usenet posting access.
   A mail->news (but not back again) gateway for alt.supermodels
   is available.  Mail your submissions to
   alt-supermodels@louie.udel.edu.  Please note, this is NOT an
   anonymous service, your return email address will be included
   in the posting.  For double-blind anonymous mail service you
   might try contacting help@anon.penet.fi.


#####################
History and purpose of alt.supermodels and this FAQ.
   alt.supermodels was created (at louie anyway) on 30 July 92, by a
   newgroup control message from umalexa9@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Edward W.
   Alexander).  The original purpose was discussion of supermodels.
   Then someone realized that supermodels are known through their
   pictures, so it is appropriate to discuss photographs here.  That
   led to posting pictures, so everyone could be talking about the same
   thing.  The end result seems to be flame wars.

|From: brinkley@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Brinkley)
|Subject: Re: Where are all the gifs
|Date: Mon Mar 01 11:56:16 EST 1993
|
|We just got through a pretty long and hard discussion concerning this.
|Apparently alt.supermodels was NOT created with massive picture-posting
|in mind.  Your post could possibly touch off another flame war.
|
|There are many alternatives to posting here.  First of all, unlike "erotic"
|GIFs, the NSF doesn't lean on any FTP sites under its influence for carrying
|pictures of models.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that due to the
|lesser demand for model pictures, posting a site's name will NOT cause its
|subsequent death from overload.  (I could be wrong on this.)
|
|For those who don't have FTP access, you could post to alt.binaries.pictures.-
|misc.  This is the perfect place for them; a.p.b.e is slightly less
|appropriate.  For those who have neither FTP nor access to the binaries
|groups, a simple e-mail should be adequate.  (And if you can't even get e-mail,
|you probably can't read this, either!)


|From: FallenAngel@not.in.heaven.com (Fallen Angel)
|Subject: Who is NOT a supermodel.
|Date: 20 Jul 1993 03:19:06 GMT
|Summary: This group is not alt.fan.bimbo.chick
|
|Some people should look at the name of this group before posting. It is
|near impossible to create an algorithm that will separate people (mostly
|women) into two cases, supermodel and not-supermodel, and have it work
|perfectly. We can state, with total certainty, that some people are NOT
|supermodels.
|
|Tanya Roberts is NOT a supermodel.
|Dana Plato is NOT a supermodel.
|Some-chick-who-had-a-role-in-a-movie is NOT a supermodel.
|The Double Mint gum blow-job bimbo is NOT a supermodel.
|The Bud girls are NOT supermodels.
|
|This newsgroup is not alt.fan.chick.hot. Yes, it is unmoderated and there
|is no authority who can maintain topicality. Still, I ask for a bit of
|common sense and courtesy. Respect the bounds of this group.
|
|This group was created to discuss (mostly) women who have excelled in a
|particular career, modelling. This means a focus on the medium of
|photography. This means an association with the fashion industry. This
|means runway work.
|
|There is no reason to stifle all discussion, or to not engage in conversation
|about people who may not quite fit the supermodel category. Anna Nicole
|Smith is one such case. Personally, I don't care for the discussion about
|various TV commercial bimbos. They aren't supermodels and probably never
|will be. This falls, however remotely, within the framework of this group.
|Questions about, and GIF requests for, second-rate actresses does not.

|From: gwatt@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Graham Watt)
|Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 12:11:44 GMT
|
|Okay everyone, back to REAL PURPOSE of alt.supermodels.
|magazine watching and model gossip.

   [ I (scott@ee.udel.edu, your occational FAQ maintainer) felt many
   inappropriate topics (ie. Janet vs. Chrissy debates) were
   swamping alt.supermodels.  I didn't want to ask people not to talk
   about them here, because I didn't feel there was an appropriate
   place where those discussions could be redirected.  I proposed
   creating alt.celebrities to handle the minor actresses, singers,
   playmates, etc.  I posted a series of RFDs and CFVs, and took
   votes.  The net vote was 80% in favor, so I newgrouped
   alt.celebrities.  I suggest that discussions of non-supermodels
   please be moved there. ]

   If you have to pay for connect time on your newsfeed, you may want
   to ask your feeder to place an article size limit on your feed.  The
   INN news transport system has this option.  A 40k limit will block
   most picture segments, and pass most discussion.  It's not a
   perfect solution, but it might save you some money.


#####################
Credits.

   Many people contributed directly or indirectly to this FAQ.  Several
   requested to remain anonymous (or didn't say), and aren't listed
   here.  If I've forgotten anyone, then I apologize for my spotty
   memory, no slight was intended.  Thank you:

   Janet Olson for a lot of the relevant data.
   Jonathan I. Kamens for his post_faq program.
   Victor P. Panlilio for his many useful postings.
   DSL for many corrections.


#####################
Disclaimer.

   The University is not in any way responsible for this FAQ or
anything else related to the alt.supermodels newsgroup.  The
contributors and I have tried to make this posting accurate, and I
apologize for any errors.  However, since I have no control over
anything else posted to the newsgroup, I cannot and do not assume
responsibility for the group.



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